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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Greetings: My wife and I just purchased our new 23rs outback this morning ( thanks to our guest visits to your forum ). We drove it off the lot extremely excited about our new camper. Got about 3 miles down the road and my expression turned gloomier with every mile. We are towing with a toyota sequoia and the thing has no-power and constantly downshifts on even the grades of the interstate. Stayed in third, not overdrive, but still had little or no acceleration. Got it home, and called the dealer who said he had never heard of this happening. Did I buy too much trailer for my tv. The sequoia is listed at 6500 lbs., the trailer sticker listed at 4664 lbs., and I drained out the fresh tank, only extra weight should be the l.p. tanks. It has a weight distributing hitch and sway control. Wheelbase on the sequoia is 118.1, engine 4.7 l v-8. What can I do, we really love the tt. Thanks
 

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First of all...Congratulations on your new camper! Glad you found the group too!
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mshaheen said:
engine 4.7 l v-8. What can I do, we really love the tt. Thanks
I figured the Sequoia would have been a decent tow rig. But when you said 4.7L it made me rethink. Do you know what your rear axle ratio is? My guess is that is pretty low, like 3.08 - which is better for gas mileage but not for towing guts.

Seems you have the right length/weight limits as far as how much of a trailer to tow, do you know what your GCWR is? [The Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) is the total allowable weight of the completely loaded vehicle and trailer including any passengers, cargo, equipment and mods.] You should be able to find this in your owners manual. Weighing your setup may help to determine if you are over weight. Posted weights don't mean a lot to me, seen to many times they are way off.

All the weights aside, it think the real key is your 4.7L engine is probably not cut out for towing the load, if the rear axle is low the combination may leave you underpowered. Some folks here have swapped out their rear axles, but of all the discussions I've ever read all were American SUVs and Trucks, I can't say I've ever heard of any others having this done - though I would think it could be done.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Gear Ratios :)1)
1st 2.804
2nd 1.531
3rd 1.000
4th 0.705
Reverse 2.393
Differential ratio 4.100
HP (SAE) 240 HP @ 4,800 RPM
Torque 315 lb.-ft @ 3,400 RPM
Max. Towing Capacity 4x2 6,500
4x4 6,200
Max. Tongue Weight 4x2 650
4x4 620
Gross Combined Weight Rating 11,800
Final Drive Ratio4.10

our sequoia is a 2 wheel drive
 

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I would definitly tow with the over drive off. I believe you Sequoia should be able to handle the 23RS. Depending on the grade your vehicle will shift down into 2nd and this is normal but in the flats and even a slight grade you should be able to maintain the speed limit. Don't kill your vehicle by trying to maintain speed under all circumstances.

For instance if I see a long grade coming I will speed up to get momentum and when the TV gets to a certain speed I will pull it down into a lower gear manually. You don't want to run with the torque converter unlocked for long as it generates a lot of heat on your transmission.
 

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Ok well the rear axle at 4.10 is good. I did a quick read and noticed they are going to beef up the engine in the upcoming years, my guess is the 4.7 is your problem with lack of power.

The other thing that is of some concern is the GCWR of 11,800#. Subtract your listed curb weight of the Sequoia 5,270# and your listed trailer weight 4,664# leaves you 1866#. If the posted weight is low (which is probably true) and you add in options you could well be right at your limit - so just be safe.

Unless there is something wrong with the truck my gut tells me its going to run the way it did for you already. Choices? Bigger engine
and just taking it slow.


That's my 2¢ and my math for what its worth, as always your mileage may vary.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
thanks y-guy and jgerni. I am going to take the tt and tv to the grain elevator tomorrow and get them weighed separately and together to get a true figure. I have 4 kids that weren't in the vehicle when we picked up the unit and as I said I thought the trailer was dry except for L.P., so if I am pushing the gcwr then its not worth it. We'll have to wait and see if the dealer will take the return. I do not feel comfortable driving at 55-58 miles per hour with overdrive off and not being able to have enough acceleration for an emergency. The dealer told us that each trailer was weighed separately after the inclusion of options and that weight was the sticker weight inside the cupboard. Perhaps he was misinformed or maybe a mistake was made in the printing. We had a horrible experience blowing an engine before while towing with a minivan and a coleman cheyenne pu. We upgraded the tv to the sequoia and it pulled the coleman effortlessly at about 3000 lbs. I sense the same problems here, just not enough margin of error with the tv to be secure.
 

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From what I've read, the seqouia is a pretty good tow vehicle within it's capabilities. You're within the capability of your truck, just at the higher end of it though. I think towing performance is a pretty subjective thing.

If for instance, I drove your setup, I might think it tows pretty well while you think it stinks. Unless you go to a big block V-8 or diesel, the acceleration and power is not going to be there in large amounts. You've basically increased your trailer weight by more than 50 percent going from 3000 to 4600, the truck is going to feel it.

The sticker in your trailer is probably accurate as my 21RS sticker says ours weighs 4400 which is about 300 less than your 23rs. According to the literature, the 23rs weighs about 300 more than the 21rs which would be consistent with your numbers.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks guys for all your input. I had a friend of mine test the combo- He is a professional mechanic and tows boats and trailers constantly. He says it pulls fine, he thinks I'm just not used to pulling a heavier load. He said the Sequoia had enough left to accelerate up the hills he took it up and it downshifted properly with power to spare. So I guess I will chalk this up to inexperience. Thanks again. I look forward to keeping in touch with this forum.
 

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He says it pulls fine, he thinks I'm just not used to pulling a heavier load. He said the Sequoia had enough left to accelerate up the hills he took it up and it downshifted properly with power to spare.
Okay then, sounds like you got some good advice. Now lets get out & enjoy the Outback for all that you hoped it would be. There's a lot to be happy about, it seems you have made the right choice after all. Let's go camping.
 

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Enjoy your camping! Sounds like you got the advice you needed to feel safe. Just watch your weight and above all have fun camping!
 

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I have a 28bhs that I pull with a Tahoe and yes I had the same problem.. I was told on this form not to tow my trailer in overdrive but to leave it in 3rd.. Reason for this is when the transmission shifts from overdrive to 3rd then back to overdrive again you build up a lot of heat during the shifting causing the transmission oil to breakdown. Good luck

Pete action
 

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All 1/2 ton TVs will act very differently with 5000lbs hooked to its rear end for sure. With that small block V8 I would suggest towing with the overdrive off. Your engine should register around 2600-2800rpms when towing in 3rd at 55 to 60mph. Its actually better for your transmission to keep the rpms up as it will run cooler than towing in OD.

Good Luck and enjoy your new camper!
 

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I have a Toyota Tundra Access Cab which also has the 4.7 and 4.10 rearend and it tows my 21RS just fine. Unless it's flat, a very slight upgrade, or downhill I always tow in 3rd gear. At 60 mph In 3rd it runs about 2700 rpm and the engine doesn't sound like its working hard either. Of course I have less weight in my TV and trailer but many times I've loaded up with a fulll water tank, my generator, and my dirtbikes and it still climbs Cajon Pass here in California at about 55 mph. There also seems to be plenty of torque for acceleration. What type of gas mileage do you get without your trailer in tow?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I get about 15-17 mpg normally ( a lot of in town driving ), but when I tow, it drops to 8-9 mpg. I'm trying to find something for my Sequoia that will increase the mid range torque and horsepower to make me feel more comfortable on the hills. When i drive into the wind, the truck will downshift from 3rd into 2nd ( I don't use od ) at 55 mph more than I like. Volant makes an aftermarket performance air system that they claim ??? will increase power 11 hp across all rpm. Quite a claim, since everyone else says that you sacrifice low end torque to get it at the high end, around 5500 rpm, with most of these ram-air products. A man at TundraSolutions.com makes an add-on air-performance system that he claims will increase mid range power by 3hp, and it a fresh air cowl attachment to deliver more air to the stock air box. Trd (Toyota Racing Development) says that there is not a product that they have that will do that. Anybody use anything like that with any success?
 

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Don't feel too bad about the towing thing.. that's a bit of weight to be towing with a small V8.. sounds about right, though.

In the power area, ignition, exhaust and intake will be your best friends. On our Grand we have the 5.2 (318 to the old timers) - it has gobs of low end for being a mid-sized pushrod V8 and I installed the K and N FIPK air injection kit, aftermarket Y-pipe (increasing the exhaust pipe size a bit) and a Jacobs Pro Street ignition. All of these increases yeilded about 3-4mpg increase and definatly more power. Unhitched it maintaines 19-21mpg on the highway around 65-70mph. Perhaps there are the same type of mods for your particular engine. You might want to try checking out a Toyota truck / SUV forum for info on where to get your goodies.

Good luck!

Mike.
 

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Recent Small V8's and esspecially the foreign ones produce most of their HP and Torque at higher RPM's than traditional V8's from the big three. Even the new GM's produce max power over 4500 rpm verses 2500-3000 on the older pre year 2000 engines. Visiting GM performance forums guys consistantly are wishing for the old torque curves for towing. The newer engines do the job but with typically with lower ratios. Looking at the 4.7's ratings using 3rd gear to stay in the torque curve should help.
 

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mshaheen said:
Volant makes an aftermarket performance air system that they claim ??? will increase power 11 hp across all rpm.
Don't you believe it. Alone, an air intake might give you 11 HP at the crank, but certainly not at the rear wheels. If that were the case Toyota would be doing that right from the factory. And just installing a new intake will only give you half the upgrade picture, because without doing the comparable exhaust mods as well you're not going to see the full benefit (more air in needs more air out to be truly effective).

mshaheen said:
Quite a claim, since everyone else says that you sacrifice low end torque to get it at the high end, around 5500 rpm, with most of these ram-air products.
That's not necessarily true; an intake/exhaust upgrade CAN give you improvements across the entire RPM range. Just don't expect anything miraculous.

mshaheen said:
Trd (Toyota Racing Development) says that there is not a product that they have that will do that.
Doesn't TRD still make superchargers?
 
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